This Game is Shallow. - Guild Wars Forums

Kai Nui · Sep 01, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Face it. All you do is grind skill points, go from mission to mission, and kill the same monsters. This game has no depth. There are no puzzles, minigames, quests later on in the game, or much variety between the character types. Once you go through the game, doing it with 2 more is just an annoyance. There's no spirit in this game to make it worth playing. The story line is very vauge or non existant. The only fun aspects of the game are PVP yet we're wasting our time with PVE. There's not a lot to say because of how shallow this game is. I'm saying we need to have rest areas with games and puzzles seeing as there are none at all. Where are our dungeons? The lameness of this game is easily defined by going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between. Not a joke, that is actually the only thing you are doing. I'll repeat that.

This game is defined as going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between.

Yeah, you pick up stuff on the side, get chests, see some cutscenes, and eventually get enough skills to do PVP, but the actual game is the definition above.

This is really sad and we need to fix this. This is so poorly thought out. Where is the skill in that definition I ask? Where? Warriors and Elementalists are the best classes because they can actually solo, and monk as a side is good to have aswell, but if you're weak you have to be extrodinarily skilled if you want even half as much loot as a soloer or to run from place to place. In fact, where's the skill in that? This game is made for skill, yet we're having people not using it. Seriously, when's the last time you've heard of a Necromancer or a Mesmer solo? Never. Now they have no way to bring up their end no matter how skilled they are because the game is said to be made for skill, but is made to be for power.

This game needs radical changes, because this game is not anywhere near skill based until you get to PVP.

Something needs to be done, but I'm not even sure what, so I'm asking for your suggestions. What I'm thinking is something along the lines of all classes having the same armour, except they can choose armour from near the warriors end and near the monks end. This way you can 'skillfully' choose how you want to play. I mean you'd be sacrificing defence for mp and vice versa.

Aniewiel · Sep 01, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

A topic in this forum should begin with an idea that can be added to or taken away from. I'm going to move this to Q&A for collecting ideas. Once you have what you want, you can formulate an idea/suggestion and repost it to this forum.

One thing you might also do is use the search key on the Riverside and Sanitarium forums. Both of those have a wealth of "suggestions" and rants with suggestions buried within. Your topic is simply too broad for inclusion in the Sanitarium right now.

GreatLich · Sep 02, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I think you should ask yourself this question: Is the game at fault, or the players playing it?

Some classes are the best because they can solo? This is a team-based game, period.

The storyline is vague, maybe... the second time around though in the earlier areas, I caught some nice little references to later in the game ( Charr and Titans most notably )
But it's nice and open-ended, with many plot twists, personal pref: I actually like that

Loot? omg, what does loot do? or gold or ecto or whatever?
You're right on one thing though: PvP is the most fun. Because of one simple reason: this is where there's actual teamplay going on...

And btw, teamplay, unlike soloing, is a skill usefull in RL... think about it

Kai Nui · Sep 02, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I'm glad you agree, but the game is missing stuff and needs to be fixed. This game is shallow and needs changing, what should be changed?

Kamatsu · Sep 02, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Never heard of a Necro solo? I guess you don't visit many GW forums and see the plathora of necro solo builds and strategies out there. I'd say go check out a few of the other GW site's and see what other people are thinking up. And your saying monk's can't solo? There's still plenty of monk solo builds and places around...

Funny how I've played 4 characters and so far the easiest i've found happens to be my Necromancer, not my warrior. Second easiest is my Elementalist at the moment, but the best and easiest and most fun character I have is my Necromancer.. yet according to you necromancer is one of the worst characters in the game. Go figure.

And you'll find that the hugely vast majority of rpg style games walk you through the storline from A to B. Take the Baldur's Gate series, Fallout 1 & 2, Star Wors Knights of the Old Republic, Morrowind, etc and so on. Yes some of the games were more "free" in letting you wonder around the world than others.. but they ALL moved you from A to B when it came to the storyline... and look at GW, yes it does move you from A to B, and yes you can avoid all the missions (except like 2? of them) to get around the world..

So whats your complaint? That this is a storydriven rpg thats online? What do you want? an open ended MMOG like WoW or EQ which has little real story but lets you play and go anywhere you want? If thats what you want.. then I strongly suggest you go play there. Because GW's story is RPG driven, and you'll find that a RPG's main storyline is always going to be about going from A to B... filled with killing things between and other story-based events (ie cutscenes).

Epiph · Sep 02, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

random generating dungeons. and some areas where everyone can kill stuff with everybody. not just your team.

magmore · Sep 02, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

If you dont like it why play?
If you want it to be better offer some specific ideas.
The game does rely quite heavily on the dynamics created by PVP . IF you dont like PVP this aint the game for you .
They took a LOT of time balancing the classes and it shows.
The mechanics function exceptionaly well considering how young the game is.
The end game battles are most challenging .
It took me a bit to adjust to this game comming from WOW, DOAC,EQ,EQ2, COH, Liniege, and Anarchyonline.
AND AND AND IT"S FREE TO PLAY !!!!!!!!! That is $190.00 per year that you can use for pepsi and doritos .
good luck to you .

Loviatar · Sep 02, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epiph

random generating dungeons. and some areas where everyone can kill stuff with everybody. not just your team.

including each other of course

gank central here we come

Draco Hunt · Sep 02, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

The people playing it should be changed

Its true that allot of people solo allot and i dont blame them but they also should try some more team farming and stuff just for the fun of being together and having fun. Like i almost never see something like "LFG 2 farm with" anywhere in the chats.
If people r going to do that we can have more fun.
And dont be narrowminded about the build of a group just try some other team builds in PvE.
Necro's can replace monks a little and give energie to other members.
Also an elementalist could tank if he uses the right skills.
Try something tinker around be creative.
And dont single people out because they dont have the profession u want them to have. Maybe they have exeptional skills.

I know sometimes u wont get the result u wanted but atleast, if your group doesnt complain, people have fun.

Thanato · Sep 02, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

and this is opposed to all other games where its "go point B from A, kill stuff at point B, return to point A to sell junk"

i'm happy that there's more then just "side quests" to do.

And if you think all you can do is farm to in this game....you're better off palying something else. so what if warriors, monk and elementalists can solo? that doesnt help em in pvp.

DrSLUGFly · Sep 02, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

1-I agree that this game is shallow, but off the top of my head I can't think of any game I've ever played that wasn't shallow (GTA had quite a bit going on...) in some... or many respects.
2-How many hours did you put into the game before the PvE grew boring? I had around 400 I think... may have been 300 before I beat the final boss for the first time.
3-I agree that there aren't enough quests and diversions, especially in the later levels, especially especially in the desert. In Ascalon they were everywhere... there must have been 15 or 20 just between Ascalon and Ashford.

But that's what the suggestions board is for. Unfortunately suggestions that don't involve numbers (directly or indirectly) often get overlooked, but still... if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

edit: and shouldn't this have been moved to riverside instead of question/answers?

coolsti · Sep 02, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Well, I am having a darn good time with this game. Best PC game I ever played!

I am enjoying getting from A to B. I enjoy fooling around/joking and chatting with random folk I meet on missions or just in outposts and towns. I enjoy finally getting that rare creature drop. I enjoy hunting for and finding elite skills. I enjoy buying some new armor, customizing it with dye, and seeing how unique my char can be (in this respect I hope future releases of the game will enhance the choices here!).

Actually, I have always hated puzzles in RPG pc games.

So in my opinion, this game does not need radical changes; I think instead you need a radical change in the game you are playing.

Edit: just a thought regarding a comment above about making an elementalist for tanking. This would probably work and be a wild, fun idea. A combination of fire magic with its devastating adjacent-group area spells (phoenix, lava, inferno and several others) plus earth magic for improved armor/better protection and/or air or water for knocking adjacent foes down or slowing them, all combined with aura of restoration to regain hit points while firing off these spells would allow an elementalist to quickly destroy a group of surrounding warriors. I was having fun doing this with fire magic alone until the mob level got too tough for me (didn't use the other elements for protection).

Kuku Monk · Sep 02, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by magmore

IF you dont like PVP this aint the game for you .

BS. I dislike PvP, yet I play the game. I enjoy PvE very much. Your statement is completely false.

Jeddak · Sep 02, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Welcome to the real world. Games are shallow and offer nothing in the way of life fulfillment. All you are really saying is that you ran out of things to do in your probable hundreds hours of play which actually is not a bad return for 50 dollars of entertainment value.

Brother Andicus · Sep 02, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Also, what do you expect? The name of the game says it all. This game was designed for team based PvP, where the number of possible skill interactions is vast. PvE is/was only ever there as an extended tutorial.

Loviatar · Sep 02, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

PvE is/was only ever there as an extended tutorial.

if you actually paid attention to the game itself *GUILD WARS* refers to the guild wars that weakened the humans allowing the char to get the upper hand.

if presear were only a tut they would have put their efforts into a huge pvp array of arenas and other pvp events.

pvp is like an appendex to the body of the game as far as amounts of
time spent creating
effort going on
and especially NO UAS/X which the pvp hardcore demanded and did not get

this also was officially stated that pve was planned from the start and not a poor relation added at the last minute.

neither was pvp added as an afterthought.

they were planned equally together

EDIT

you will notice that *grind* is still required of the pvp crowd and if pvp were the be all end result they would not force them to do it

Esprit · Sep 02, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

This game is defined as going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between.

Many games of this genre do that. Go back to Mario Brothers, you went from start to finish, and killed stuff inbetween.

If you are looking for puzzles, play Myst or one those types of games. Any level progression in this type of game requires "killing stuff".

ethornber · Sep 02, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

This game is shallow and needs changing, what should be changed?

Your expectations.

John Bloodstone · Sep 02, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I'd have to agree with the OP on the shallowness of the PvE game. It started off pretty well, but by the time i'd ascended the first time I was getting a bit tired, and by the time I fully completed with one character I was downright bored of it.

There really isn't a lot to do in the PvE game other than grind through the missions. There are no long term goals, there are no real rewards, no cool loot, there are no mini games, the missions are reduced to the same pull -> kill monotony over and over and the story is seriously weak.

Granted, i'm reaching the 500 hour mark across all characters now, so i've definately had my moneys worth from the game, but it's a good job that the PvP game is so well balanced and satisfying otherwise I would probably not be playing this game half as much as I do now.

Even the Guilds, which are an integral part of the game seem to have a lack of options. I put it down to the fact that Guild Wars is a new game with the usual teething problems, and I hope that they add a whole lot of depth to the PvE game next time around otherwise i'll likely just stick with the PvP.

Sir Skullcrasher · Sep 02, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Face it. All you do is grind skill points, go from mission to mission, and kill the same monsters. This game has no depth. There are no puzzles, minigames, quests later on in the game, or much variety between the character types. Once you go through the game, doing it with 2 more is just an annoyance. There's no spirit in this game to make it worth playing. The story line is very vauge or non existant. The only fun aspects of the game are PVP yet we're wasting our time with PVE. There's not a lot to say because of how shallow this game is. I'm saying we need to have rest areas with games and puzzles seeing as there are none at all. Where are our dungeons? The lameness of this game is easily defined by going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between. Not a joke, that is actually the only thing you are doing. I'll repeat that.

This game is defined as going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between.

Yeah, you pick up stuff on the side, get chests, see some cutscenes, and eventually get enough skills to do PVP, but the actual game is the definition above.

This is really sad and we need to fix this. This is so poorly thought out. Where is the skill in that definition I ask? Where? Warriors and Elementalists are the best classes because they can actually solo, and monk as a side is good to have aswell, but if you're weak you have to be extrodinarily skilled if you want even half as much loot as a soloer or to run from place to place. In fact, where's the skill in that? This game is made for skill, yet we're having people not using it. Seriously, when's the last time you've heard of a Necromancer or a Mesmer solo? Never. Now they have no way to bring up their end no matter how skilled they are because the game is said to be made for skill, but is made to be for power.

This game needs radical changes, because this game is not anywhere near skill based until you get to PVP.

Something needs to be done, but I'm not even sure what, so I'm asking for your suggestions. What I'm thinking is something along the lines of all classes having the same armour, except they can choose armour from near the warriors end and near the monks end. This way you can 'skillfully' choose how you want to play. I mean you'd be sacrificing defence for mp and vice versa.

I thought that what all MMORPG is all about go from point A and kill the monsters at point B, than go to point C to get item and come back to point A. Any changes that a-net can do to make the game less shallow.. well, they can always add more quests, make items harder to get it, create good set of skills that is hard to acquire, make the maps more interactive?

Tons of things they can do, but the bottom line OP is that MMORPG is all about going from one place to another and killing things in between to gain exps, you can't expect them to change the formula.

Sep 01, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40	#1
Kai Nui Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you with a knife Guild: Celebrity Gangsters [FamE] Profession: Me/	This Game is Shallow. Face it. All you do is grind skill points, go from mission to mission, and kill the same monsters. This game has no depth. There are no puzzles, minigames, quests later on in the game, or much variety between the character types. Once you go through the game, doing it with 2 more is just an annoyance. There's no spirit in this game to make it worth playing. The story line is very vauge or non existant. The only fun aspects of the game are PVP yet we're wasting our time with PVE. There's not a lot to say because of how shallow this game is. I'm saying we need to have rest areas with games and puzzles seeing as there are none at all. Where are our dungeons? The lameness of this game is easily defined by going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between. Not a joke, that is actually the only thing you are doing. I'll repeat that. This game is defined as going from point A to point B and killing stuff in between. Yeah, you pick up stuff on the side, get chests, see some cutscenes, and eventually get enough skills to do PVP, but the actual game is the definition above. This is really sad and we need to fix this. This is so poorly thought out. Where is the skill in that definition I ask? Where? Warriors and Elementalists are the best classes because they can actually solo, and monk as a side is good to have aswell, but if you're weak you have to be extrodinarily skilled if you want even half as much loot as a soloer or to run from place to place. In fact, where's the skill in that? This game is made for skill, yet we're having people not using it. Seriously, when's the last time you've heard of a Necromancer or a Mesmer solo? Never. Now they have no way to bring up their end no matter how skilled they are because the game is said to be made for skill, but is made to be for power. This game needs radical changes, because this game is not anywhere near skill based until you get to PVP. Something needs to be done, but I'm not even sure what, so I'm asking for your suggestions. What I'm thinking is something along the lines of all classes having the same armour, except they can choose armour from near the warriors end and near the monks end. This way you can 'skillfully' choose how you want to play. I mean you'd be sacrificing defence for mp and vice versa. Last edited by Kai Nui; Sep 01, 2005 at 11:44 PM // 23:44..

Sep 02, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01	#7
magmore Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: none Profession: W/R	?? If you dont like it why play? If you want it to be better offer some specific ideas. The game does rely quite heavily on the dynamics created by PVP . IF you dont like PVP this aint the game for you . They took a LOT of time balancing the classes and it shows. The mechanics function exceptionaly well considering how young the game is. The end game battles are most challenging . It took me a bit to adjust to this game comming from WOW, DOAC,EQ,EQ2, COH, Liniege, and Anarchyonline. AND AND AND IT"S FREE TO PLAY !!!!!!!!! That is $190.00 per year that you can use for pepsi and doritos . good luck to you .

Sep 02, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04	#11
DrSLUGFly Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: European Server or International	1-I agree that this game is shallow, but off the top of my head I can't think of any game I've ever played that wasn't shallow (GTA had quite a bit going on...) in some... or many respects. 2-How many hours did you put into the game before the PvE grew boring? I had around 400 I think... may have been 300 before I beat the final boss for the first time. 3-I agree that there aren't enough quests and diversions, especially in the later levels, especially especially in the desert. In Ascalon they were everywhere... there must have been 15 or 20 just between Ascalon and Ashford. But that's what the suggestions board is for. Unfortunately suggestions that don't involve numbers (directly or indirectly) often get overlooked, but still... if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. edit: and shouldn't this have been moved to riverside instead of question/answers? Last edited by DrSLUGFly; Sep 02, 2005 at 05:06 AM // 05:06..

Sep 02, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51	#12
coolsti Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denmark	Well, I am having a darn good time with this game. Best PC game I ever played! I am enjoying getting from A to B. I enjoy fooling around/joking and chatting with random folk I meet on missions or just in outposts and towns. I enjoy finally getting that rare creature drop. I enjoy hunting for and finding elite skills. I enjoy buying some new armor, customizing it with dye, and seeing how unique my char can be (in this respect I hope future releases of the game will enhance the choices here!). Actually, I have always hated puzzles in RPG pc games. So in my opinion, this game does not need radical changes; I think instead you need a radical change in the game you are playing. Edit: just a thought regarding a comment above about making an elementalist for tanking. This would probably work and be a wild, fun idea. A combination of fire magic with its devastating adjacent-group area spells (phoenix, lava, inferno and several others) plus earth magic for improved armor/better protection and/or air or water for knocking adjacent foes down or slowing them, all combined with aura of restoration to regain hit points while firing off these spells would allow an elementalist to quickly destroy a group of surrounding warriors. I was having fun doing this with fire magic alone until the mob level got too tough for me (didn't use the other elements for protection). Last edited by coolsti; Sep 02, 2005 at 08:41 AM // 08:41..

Sep 01, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53	#2
Aniewiel Smite Mistress Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Land of AZ, USA Profession: Rt/E	A topic in this forum should begin with an idea that can be added to or taken away from. I'm going to move this to Q&A for collecting ideas. Once you have what you want, you can formulate an idea/suggestion and repost it to this forum. One thing you might also do is use the search key on the Riverside and Sanitarium forums. Both of those have a wealth of "suggestions" and rants with suggestions buried within. Your topic is simply too broad for inclusion in the Sanitarium right now.

Sep 02, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07	#3
GreatLich Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2005	I think you should ask yourself this question: Is the game at fault, or the players playing it? Some classes are the best because they can solo? This is a team-based game, period. The storyline is vague, maybe... the second time around though in the earlier areas, I caught some nice little references to later in the game ( Charr and Titans most notably ) But it's nice and open-ended, with many plot twists, personal pref: I actually like that Loot? omg, what does loot do? or gold or ecto or whatever? You're right on one thing though: PvP is the most fun. Because of one simple reason: this is where there's actual teamplay going on... And btw, teamplay, unlike soloing, is a skill usefull in RL... think about it

Sep 02, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31	#4
Kai Nui Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you with a knife Guild: Celebrity Gangsters [FamE] Profession: Me/	I'm glad you agree, but the game is missing stuff and needs to be fixed. This game is shallow and needs changing, what should be changed?

Sep 02, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57	#5
Kamatsu Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Australia	Never heard of a Necro solo? I guess you don't visit many GW forums and see the plathora of necro solo builds and strategies out there. I'd say go check out a few of the other GW site's and see what other people are thinking up. And your saying monk's can't solo? There's still plenty of monk solo builds and places around... Funny how I've played 4 characters and so far the easiest i've found happens to be my Necromancer, not my warrior. Second easiest is my Elementalist at the moment, but the best and easiest and most fun character I have is my Necromancer.. yet according to you necromancer is one of the worst characters in the game. Go figure. And you'll find that the hugely vast majority of rpg style games walk you through the storline from A to B. Take the Baldur's Gate series, Fallout 1 & 2, Star Wors Knights of the Old Republic, Morrowind, etc and so on. Yes some of the games were more "free" in letting you wonder around the world than others.. but they ALL moved you from A to B when it came to the storyline... and look at GW, yes it does move you from A to B, and yes you can avoid all the missions (except like 2? of them) to get around the world.. So whats your complaint? That this is a storydriven rpg thats online? What do you want? an open ended MMOG like WoW or EQ which has little real story but lets you play and go anywhere you want? If thats what you want.. then I strongly suggest you go play there. Because GW's story is RPG driven, and you'll find that a RPG's main storyline is always going to be about going from A to B... filled with killing things between and other story-based events (ie cutscenes).

Sep 02, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58	#6
Epiph Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005	random generating dungeons. and some areas where everyone can kill stuff with everybody. not just your team.

Sep 02, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02	#9
Draco Hunt Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Netherlands Guild: Resistance is Painfull[RiP] Profession: A/Me	The people playing it should be changed Its true that allot of people solo allot and i dont blame them but they also should try some more team farming and stuff just for the fun of being together and having fun. Like i almost never see something like "LFG 2 farm with" anywhere in the chats. If people r going to do that we can have more fun. And dont be narrowminded about the build of a group just try some other team builds in PvE. Necro's can replace monks a little and give energie to other members. Also an elementalist could tank if he uses the right skills. Try something tinker around be creative. And dont single people out because they dont have the profession u want them to have. Maybe they have exeptional skills. I know sometimes u wont get the result u wanted but atleast, if your group doesnt complain, people have fun.

Sep 02, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02	#10
Thanato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Quebec, Canada Guild: Followers of the Faith Profession: R/Me	and this is opposed to all other games where its "go point B from A, kill stuff at point B, return to point A to sell junk" i'm happy that there's more then just "side quests" to do. And if you think all you can do is farm to in this game....you're better off palying something else. so what if warriors, monk and elementalists can solo? that doesnt help em in pvp.

Sep 02, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02	#14
Jeddak Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Blood Feud Profession: E/Mo	Welcome to the real world. Games are shallow and offer nothing in the way of life fulfillment. All you are really saying is that you ran out of things to do in your probable hundreds hours of play which actually is not a bad return for 50 dollars of entertainment value.

Sep 02, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34	#15
Brother Andicus Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Scotland Guild: The Illuminati	Also, what do you expect? The name of the game says it all. This game was designed for team based PvP, where the number of possible skill interactions is vast. PvE is/was only ever there as an extended tutorial.

Sep 02, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29	#19
John Bloodstone Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Requiem Lords Profession: R/Me	I'd have to agree with the OP on the shallowness of the PvE game. It started off pretty well, but by the time i'd ascended the first time I was getting a bit tired, and by the time I fully completed with one character I was downright bored of it. There really isn't a lot to do in the PvE game other than grind through the missions. There are no long term goals, there are no real rewards, no cool loot, there are no mini games, the missions are reduced to the same pull -> kill monotony over and over and the story is seriously weak. Granted, i'm reaching the 500 hour mark across all characters now, so i've definately had my moneys worth from the game, but it's a good job that the PvP game is so well balanced and satisfying otherwise I would probably not be playing this game half as much as I do now. Even the Guilds, which are an integral part of the game seem to have a lack of options. I put it down to the fact that Guild Wars is a new game with the usual teething problems, and I hope that they add a whole lot of depth to the PvE game next time around otherwise i'll likely just stick with the PvP.